The challenge of being attracted to trans women
This originally started as a response to the blog post "It's All a Game..." but I realized after I finished my rant that it belongs in it's own post rather than hijacking someone else's.
You called it, most men who are into trans women view y'all as a fetish rather than as a person. I personally attribute this to exposure. I would say most men have never knowingly interacted with a trans woman as a person before. Growing up in rural america, I had never even met an openly gay person until I got to college... and there are a lot more gay people out there than trans women. How do you discover that you're attracted to trans women when you've never (knowingly) met one before? Porn. It's sad, but true.
Even for someone who is (I like to believe respectfully) attracted to trans women, where do our lives intersect? When I was in SF (in my mind, the LGBT capital of the US), I was looking for a trans bar and I found Divas. Turns out that's more of a trans strip club than a bar that trans women frequent. Not what I was hoping for... and now I have an internal struggle of whether to support the place (I chose to even though I felt slimy, but that's a topic for another post). Where would I go to meet trans women in a way that they're not being objectified? Anywhere else, if you have pass-privilege, we're like ships in the night.
I didn't know one of my friends was MtF trans for the first year and a half of knowing him, until I passionately brought up trans rights issues in a conversation. He let me know privately later, away from everyone else, and thanked me for my words.
What I'm trying to illustrate is that for many trans people, pass-privilege is an ideal, but this robs those around them of being able to personalize the struggle that y'all go through. It's a conversation that doesn't get had. Please don't interpret this as a criticism of thinking or acting that way. Life is disproportionately difficult for people in your situation, and it's unfair to expect anyone to bear the extra weight of trying to fix the world on top of everything else you deal with. The unfortunate effect though is that many men's exposure to trans women comes where there's higher visibility: in situations where trans women are being objectified (porn, prostitution, etc).
Another problem is that in many situations, I view you as something different than how you view yourself. To me, being pre-op is an attractive feature in a woman. To many trans women, it's at best a cruel joke and at worst something that can cause life-threatening body dysmorphia. If these men are attracted to what happens to be between your legs and that's not a part of yourself that you feel good about, then it seems to me that the two of you are at odds from the beginning.
I'd like to hear how you think about this because this isn't something I live with. As connected as I like to believe I am to this community, I'm still a tourist who can never truly understand how you feel.
My statements are based on my observations/experiences and I don't mean to over-generalize. I'm hoping to start a conversation so please don't completely dismiss me if I've inadvertently said something that you take offense to. However, I do welcome your comments to help inform me if I've said something that you find offensive. This is my first post, so I'm not sure if I'm able to fix it afterward, but if I can, I will so that a potential poor choice of wording doesn't sabotage what I'm trying to say. I will leave any mis-perceptions I may have had though because I'd rather leave that intact so that others can read it and become better informed through the commentary around my missteps. Also, let me know if you come up with a better title; I really don't like this one, but it seemed clickbait-y enough to not get lost in stream of other posts.
Finally, there are just a lot of guys who are pigs out there, regardless of whether you're trans or cis. I'm not trying to make excuses for any of them because regardless of what I've said above, it doesn't change the fact that they're behaving inappropriately and just being shitty people.
Comments
@Tanya,
I'll get right into this....
I'm a proud transwoman and I love and accept myself totally. I have no issues with my male origins and no amount of surgery will change this fact for me and others.
Being masculine or feminine isn't determined by body parts it's determined by the brain and ones own mannerisms and actions. Each person validates themselves others opinions shouldn't matter.
Yes, a clitoris is nothing more than a small penis with this I agree. As long as we're on the subject of the body, let's now talk about the anus. The anus has two main functions sitting and eliminating waste, so in reality nothing should be going in there but because of the prostate being pleasurable for many, people indulge. Is it natural to use the anus for sex I would say no but it surely feels good to indulge so I don't knock it because I love tickling men prostates as well.
Now here's where it get's interesting...you asked if I were masculine because I was a top? I would have to say when i'm topping men I feel in control so I would say yes, when i'm topping a man my masculine side is dominant because I love the submission of men and after i'm done then i'm back in submissive behavior, see Tanya i'm two spirited and I stand proudly in that.
Lastly, I agree when trans attracted men try to attack non passable women and the girls that were more fortunate to take their tran$ition to the next level sit back and say nothing are also part of the problem! I personally would take the men attacks with a grain of salt because many of these men are in need of some psychiatric help! We're all trans and no ones better than anyone. IMO when men try to put women against each other it's a tactic to cause division and to gain access to these girls but in all reality these men don't really care about any of us, passable or not they use us all.
@why not,
I don't understand why you or any other man would have such a hard time just treating transwomen like any other woman? You say that many men have never interacted with transwomen before and that's one of the main reasons why men objectify us is because of porn? I'm sorry but that's a weak excuse! Any half way decent person knows to treat any person with respect it's not about being trans it's just men feel entitled to our bodies because of our males origins, and because of that men feel that we're always waiting and wanting to be had ..,period! As I previously stated it's all about lust nothing more!
I have to say this again men ARE more critical of transwomen appearances than they are of cis women. Many tend to expect a transwoman to be this ultra feminine looking, dressing, and acting woman something that men don't expect nor demand from cis women. Non passable transwomen are often judged harshly by trans attracted men. Many of these men say offensive crap about transwomen who are a little masculine but yet they want dick! The hypocrisy is unreal with many of these men! They're not attracted to masculine features but isn't a penis a masculine feature?? Don't get me wrong i'm not knocking it because i'm a top but also a realist! Many of these trans attracted men are delusional, and sick and are very toxic to transwomen some of them even are down right scary!
On the surface it seems all good until you either have a phone conversation with them or meet these in person then you'll see that many of these men are empty!
retro88 Co - I completely agree, nobody chooses to be trans; they can only choose (within their limitations) what sort of a transition is right for them. You see how this can present a challenge when it comes to dating in many situations. If you consider your dating pool as a trans woman to be men who are attracted to trans women, this implies that they are attracted to the female form, but male genitalia. However, as you've stated, that generally isn't the ultimate aim of a trans woman. So the ideal dating pool is men who are attracted to women regardless of their genitalia. However, most men like that will get into relationships with cis women because of the relative frequency of cis women vs trans women. You end up with asymmetric demand and that explains a lot of the problem. I don't know how to fix that problem though, how do we get more men into that second pool?
@I'm Strange
You may have misunderstood what I was trying to communicate when I said, "Where can you go to meet a transwoman that's not objectified?" I was trying to illustrate that many men who are attracted to trans women have never had a chance to interact with them as people. If someone's only exposure to trans women has been as a sex object (porn, etc.) then their brain has never been trained to think about them as anything else. Growing up in a place where black people don't exist, stereotypes are formed off of the only exposure we had: the horribly biased way African Americans are treated in the media. It was hard when the first black kid moved into our district; it wasn't that the kids had any resentment, they just feared/distrusted him (but always picked him first during recess) because their perceptions were trained by what they saw on TV (both news and entertainment horribly are guilty of this). I've heard that what really helped change the perceptions in this country (we still have quite a way to go) is propinquity. People started coming out of the closet, so homophobes, whose only knowledge of gay people was that the bible says they're bad and going to hell, suddenly had cognitive dissonance: "I know that gays are bad people, but I just found out Bob is gay and he's a good person." Some doubled down on their beliefs, others began to open their minds. To your last paragraph: Yes!! We need more visibility, but we need it on a personal level. Unfortunately, there aren't enough trans people for everyone to have a trans friend and be able to personalize your humanity and your struggle.
So a common misconception that you may have fallen into is that men who are attracted to trans women are gay. I'm pansexual, but I recognize that my attraction to cis men and to cis women just feel different. My attraction to trans women feels much more like my attraction to cis women. However, I can imagine being attracted to trans women but not to men is a pretty confusing place to be in: "Does this make me gay?!?" So I would guess that to some extent, you're right in that these men are confused and fear being labeled as gay when they don't see themselves that way. However, I think that there's another aspect to it as well in that we've traditionally identified gender on a binary basis and many men's brains have been trained to think that way. So an unattractive or masculine cis female still gets classified as female in their binary buckets, however trans women (and trans men) defy the binary buckets and instead exist on a scale. So for someone who is attracted to only women (both trans and cis), there's an inflection point where their brains make the jump between buckets. So I don't think it's as much that they are being more critical of trans women, but that psychologically certain attributes change the classification for them and that's beyond their control.
Also, there was no criticism meant toward the working girls. Cis people take for granted that they can get out of bed, look in the mirror, and see themself staring back. I crashed at my friend's place and I know how long it takes her to get ready to the state that she feels like herself. Even making minimum wage, that would be like $400-$500 bucks a month, but there ain't nobody paying her for her time getting ready. This is just the time getting ready, not to mention all of the stress of being in public "Is someone going to harass me? Are they going to make a scene if I try to use the bathroom here?" It seems exhausting in a way that I think most people would have difficulty handling, and there are the expenses you mentioned on top of all of that.
Thank you both for taking the time to respond.
For starters no offense was taken by your post. I actually respect the fact that you were man enough to admit that you contribute to being one of those men whom objectify us. It takes a lot for a man to come here and create a space for dialogue as well as understanding, and for that I thank you.
Let's start here, you asked," Where can you go to meet a transwoman that's not objectified?" It's not about finding the right place ,it's about respect! Just as you want to be respected then you and others should also do the same with others no matter where you meet anyone.
It's true there are a lot of pigs out here even with cis, but the difference is they're still respected more because they're cis and let's be real here most men don't view transwomen as women. We're still seen as men, freaks , taboo, etc... no matter what we look like because we go against the grain just like the black sheep of one's family but we're treated worst! Most men are cowards and won't stand next to transwomen because they fear judgement, and being ostracized for simply loving us and as a result we become nothing more than concubines, used for men selfish, darkest deeds.
As far as the working girls? Prostitution has been around since almost the beginning of time and I understand why many girls are hustlers. See, many of you men don't realize that the many surgeries that many trans women have aren't cheap! Also many of those girls already know that most guys are full of b.s. so they charge, can't blame them.
Trans attracted men are very cruel to transwomen, especially transwomen of color! Transwomen are judged on their looks more harshly than cis women. Most trans attracted men want a girl to be totally undetectable and this is so that they can hide their self shameful deeds to the public and not appear to be gay to the world, but yet want to suck , and be pounded by a girl with their love stick, the bigger the better! It's all a complete mess! Many of these men are strange and can be very toxic to trans women.
Lastly, I feel that although there's more visibility society still has a long way to go before transwomen will be seen as a woman to be not only respected but also deserving of love. Change starts with each and every trans attracted men. The moment many of you men start living in your truth and start dating us loud and proud, is only way we can bridge that gap but you know as well as I, it's not happening anytime soon because most men are scared, and it's simple as that.